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Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1377	Posted - 2014.01.29 18:41:00 - [1] - Quote They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1380	Posted - 2014.01.29 18:53:00 - [2] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Meh As long as isk earned from PC doesn't stomp my ass all over the place then I really don't care. They can make 500 mil a day, as long as their inventory is separate from public domain ( public match suit inventory and PC match suit inventory, same dual inventory for vehicles too). The only thing that will do is make the barrier to PC entry even more insurmountable and force anyone who wants in to become a renter or try the normal way and ragequit since there would be no way that they could compete on a financial level without having a full 1300 man corp grinding for several hours per day. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1382	Posted - 2014.01.29 19:23:00 - [3] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Meh As long as isk earned from PC doesn't stomp my ass all over the place then I really don't care. They can make 500 mil a day, as long as their inventory is separate from public domain ( public match suit inventory and PC match suit inventory, same dual inventory for vehicles too). The only thing that will do is make the barrier to PC entry even more insurmountable and force anyone who wants in to become a renter or try the normal way and ragequit since there would be no way that they could compete on a financial level without having a full 1300 man corp grinding for several hours per day. Well, could PC money be kept out and have separate inventory while allowing public funds to enter PC? The idea is to keep PC elements out of pubs. So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else? In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level". Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual. PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail. Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1386	Posted - 2014.01.29 19:41:00 - [4] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else? In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level". Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual. PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail. Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us. No, choice of funds spent in PC matters, making economical choices has an impact, so does player suit costs and such. The issue was seeing money designed for PC meeting pub players with no such financial backing. As far as accumulated player money, either remove funds above a 100 million (ie if you had 150 mil, you can only keep the 100) and issue the remainder to a separate CEO account or leave it as it stands with the new isk rules in place. If a player saves, he can ascend 100 mil, I am quite a saver myself and my one go over that. The point is to differentiate between isk generating systems. Even if that Isk isn't allowed to be used to fund pubstomping, it will lead to the same outcome for those who are new to PC and trying to break into it. They will effectively be paying to get pubstomped. There is a massive difference between a fiscally responsible FW/pub player and someone funded through PC. In the first case, you make wise choices and earn your Isk battle to battle. In the second case, you make Isk no matter what, unless of course you are a blind, deaf quadriplegic with thalidomide arms. AFAIK, they change the payout scheme in PC to make it more actively generated, though they never did anything about the beginning of PC where you got Isk simply because you had a District and sat with your thumb up your ass. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1386	Posted - 2014.01.29 19:42:00 - [5] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else? In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level". Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual. PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail. Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us. No, choice of funds spent in PC matters, making economical choices has an impact, so does player suit costs and such. The issue was seeing money designed for PC meeting pub players with no such financial backing. As far as accumulated player money, either remove funds above a 100 million (ie if you had 150 mil, you can only keep the 100) and issue the remainder to a separate CEO account or leave it as it stands with the new isk rules in place. If a player saves, he can ascend 100 mil, I am quite a saver myself and my one go over that. The point is to differentiate between isk generating systems. Just try to take my billions space commy We wouldn't need to, CCP would. If that causes you to quit, oh well...... Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1390	Posted - 2014.01.29 20:49:00 - [6] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else? In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level". Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual. PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail. Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us. No, choice of funds spent in PC matters, making economical choices has an impact, so does player suit costs and such. The issue was seeing money designed for PC meeting pub players with no such financial backing. As far as accumulated player money, either remove funds above a 100 million (ie if you had 150 mil, you can only keep the 100) and issue the remainder to a separate CEO account or leave it as it stands with the new isk rules in place. If a player saves, he can ascend 100 mil, I am quite a saver myself and my one go over that. The point is to differentiate between isk generating systems. Just try to take my billions space commy We wouldn't need to, CCP would. If that causes you to quit, oh well...... 1. It would never happen Space Commy goes against CCP's Golden Rule 2. I had half a bill before ever setting foot in PC. FYI If you need cash you can always lick/polish my virtual boots. Please, continue to illustrate why you'll be even less missed than the cancer that is PC when you finally quit trolling and move onto the next game you want to kill. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1390	Posted - 2014.01.29 20:55:00 - [7] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now. I can't help it. I think the standard line of we are aware of it is just ridiculous. Come on guys, this has been going on forever. You might not want a bandaid but maybe it's time to call one guy back from holidays and have him fix it. Seems like the correct punishment for having left it for so long :) Didn't we tell them it was broken before it was even officially released and yet they still insisted on releasing the broken passive faucet. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1392	Posted - 2014.01.29 21:18:00 - [8] - Quote Actually, you're wrong. New Eden is all about being an antisocial capitalist sociopath filled with impotent rage until you can gather X(X+X) allies together so you can blob the cause of your impotent rage. X == the number of allies that the source of your impotent rage has. FYI, zerg rush would be the translation of blob that you would understand. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1400	Posted - 2014.01.30 00:47:00 - [9] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. What exactly is so bad about districts generating so much ISK? PC is expensive, I lose ISK every PC I play in (unless I'm ringing). People who play PC and can hold their districts deserve the money. That is why people have a problem with locking districts and that's why locking should not generate any money. Also, this thread was started by someone in Fatal Absolution, go figure!!! This isn't a welfare state, if you want that go find it somewhere other than New Eden. What makes you think you are entitled to free money that is printed from nothing? Guess what? You're not, no one is. So what your Alliance/Corporation owns a District. Oh, you say you are entitled to the free money just because you won the fight? It shouldn't work that way. Look at it this way, seizing the District is like seizing the ingredients to make cookies. Just because you have those ingredients doesn't mean you get to eat the cookies. You need to prep the dough, add the semi sweet morsels, mix them in evenly, mold the dough into little balls and then bake them into cookies; only then can you eat the cookies. Seizing the District should give you access to X amount of potential PvE income per day. If you don't kill the mobs, you don't get the income. Just because you "own" the District doesn't mean you can farm your mobs unmolested. No, you need to defend your District from any raiders that show up to kill your mobs and claim your income. If you can't defend your District adequately, they will rob you blind. If you expand beyond what you can reasonably defend/patrol, you'll end up footing the bill for others to profit. Oh, did I forget to mention that you don't just get access to "your District" for free, you need to pay CONCORD their property tax. The upside is that you can profit by opening your structures to the public and charging them for access. Do you have a Production facility? Well, you can turn a decent profit by allowing both eggers and mercs the opportunity to utilize your manufacturing slots. Each type of facility allows you a seperate service which you can offer to the public for a price as well as X amount of potential PvE income for you to defend/farm. There you have it, a working model for Active Income Generation rather than farming fights with blues or locking Districts or (worst of all) sitting there with your thumb up your ass while still getting paid. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1411	Posted - 2014.01.30 01:49:00 - [10] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now. Ah Richer get Richer ...and the poor just complain moar thats cause ccp dont give 2 shyts about fixing anything in under 6 months. by the time they fix it the damage will be so beyond done that no one will have the isk to compete. i imagine some of the pc corp could run proto gear for a year straight without any income at all If it really comes to that, I doubt Dust would survive much longer than that. There is probably some of us who possess that sort of patience though I am willing to bet that there are more of us who don't. If it does survive that, it would more than likely be because everyone went into "Passive SP Accrual" mode aka playing other games and not touching Dust no matter the event incentives. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1419	Posted - 2014.01.30 03:18:00 - [11] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: @regynum Actually, you're wrong. New Eden is all about being an antisocial capitalist sociopath filled with impotent rage until you can gather X(X+X) allies together so you can blob the cause of your impotent rage. X == the number of allies that the source of your impotent rage has. FYI, zerg rush would be the translation of blob that you would understand. Not to be... ya know, a downer.... but ISK is money, money buys good allies, good allies buys wins, wins = power... so.... I think he's got a bit of a point..... Allies bought are not allies at all. If you bought them, so can anyone else so how can you ever truly trust that they will remain loyal? Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1420	Posted - 2014.01.30 03:20:00 - [12] - Quote excillon wrote: Heres a thought open up the starmap so there are more districts for corps. Open null sec so we can have some real fun! This will change nothing, the corps who've been in Molden Heath playing Soggy Biscuits with the Blueberry Muffin will simply zerg rush the land grabs and just make themselves even more bloated with Isk. This will only exacerbate an already terminal condition. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1420	Posted - 2014.01.30 03:23:00 - [13] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: @regynum Actually, you're wrong. New Eden is all about being an antisocial capitalist sociopath filled with impotent rage until you can gather X(X+X) allies together so you can blob the cause of your impotent rage. X == the number of allies that the source of your impotent rage has. FYI, zerg rush would be the translation of blob that you would understand. Not to be... ya know, a downer.... but ISK is money, money buys good allies, good allies buys wins, wins = power... so.... I think he's got a bit of a point..... Allies bought are not allies at all. If you bought them, so can anyone else so how can you ever truly trust that they will remain loyal? You cant and that's exactly why you can trust them. Money is money, a mercenary is a mercenary, they go where the most money is. If you have it you can trust they will stick by you, if you don't you can trust they are against you. If they can be swayed by money, how can you know that they can't be swayed by the mere suggestion of more money? This is New Eden after all, it isn't like betrayal is some unheard of practice. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1420	Posted - 2014.01.30 03:31:00 - [14] - Quote True Adamance wrote: And if you promise more? So you're just going to arbitrarily offer more money than you are already giving them out of fear that they will be swayed to an enemies side by the suggestion that they will pay them more? C'mon, I thought you were smarter than that, they'd just allude to the thought that others have offered more and extort you for everything you've got until you were poorer than they were and then they move onto the next client. Leaving you where? ****** and with no allies. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1434	Posted - 2014.01.30 14:53:00 - [15] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: I just don't get how hard it can be to remove ISK generation and fix the refunding exploit. Those two things would solve this problem right away. After that they can look at doing things like increasing the payout for winning. They don't need to fix every single problem with PC as it's going to be deleted when PC 2.0 comes around. They just need to do those small bandaids. It's also funny they were supposed to at least lower ISK generation (to 60k ISK per clone) three months ago, but for some unknown reason that has never happened. Just do these bandaid fixes and leave PC be until PC 2.0 or delete PC right now and forget it ever existed. I always love reading the "remove 'x' content please" arguments. Last thing this game needs is less content - PC is the only thing that separates this game from a 100% match-maker shooter and, well, it just barely does that at the moment. Removing ISK generation would just kill any reason to go into PC what-so-ever, the entire point of getting into PC is to make ISK and removing that defeats the entire purpose of a "risk vs reward" style gameplay. What we need is a more methodical way to go about it and one solution I really liked was having it so that clone packs could only be used to attack a district bordering a high-sec system. Gives a more tactical reason to have space in a certain area as opposed to just anywhere and it kills district locking all together in systems that -dont- border high-sec. Only thing you need to do then is make it so that systems that can be attacked by those clone packs don't make any ISK from it; as previously stated. Gives players a reason and drive to push further into low-sec and more tactical space because otherwise they're subject to just constant attacks by just anyone and they don't make anything from it, only when their clones are at capacity in the district. PC is content for what percentage of the playerbase? Of that percentage of the playerbase, what percentage get to do something more than overpaid "privates"? Even beyond that, how much of that content is anything more than simply epeen waving and deciding who to farm with next or which newcomer to **** on first. The percentage of the playerbase that actually participates in PC is inconsequentially small in comparison to the percentage that doesn't. They are the only ones that will miss it while CCP rebuilds it from the ground up. I am not even sure that any work done so far on PC 2.0 should even be kept since most likely they are moving forward with the same broken premises. The content CCP should focus on giving us is full racial parity. If anything else, I'd say that PvE should be a higher priority than PC in any shape, form or fashion. I would be willing to wait for a summer "expansion" that introduces raidable PvE as well as reintroducing PC (as a non-broken, Active source of Income Generation if we didn't need to worry about the currently broken system poisoning the rest of the game. Personally, I think expanding on the idea I presented earlier in this thread would be the perfect start for a new PC. It would make PC something that would encourage conflict as well as introducing other elements that the community has been requesting for a long time, PvE, PvEvP, player market in addition to science & industry and who can forget the fact that it would entwine Dust and Eve further (offering services to capsuleers and mercs alike through the surface infrastructure) For all of the talk of BPOs being a detriment to the Dust economy, they are a drop in the bucket compared to the isk that is generated from nothing everyday under the current PC mechanics. I am fairly certain that anyone who can't see or admit that is simply trying to protect their cash cow no matter what the longterm damage to the game may be. Which is more important to you, being stupid rich in a game on life support; or giving up your golden goose before travelling down Dust's road to recovery? Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1436	Posted - 2014.01.30 15:28:00 - [16] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: I just don't get how hard it can be to remove ISK generation and fix the refunding exploit. Those two things would solve this problem right away. After that they can look at doing things like increasing the payout for winning. They don't need to fix every single problem with PC as it's going to be deleted when PC 2.0 comes around. They just need to do those small bandaids. It's also funny they were supposed to at least lower ISK generation (to 60k ISK per clone) three months ago, but for some unknown reason that has never happened. Just do these bandaid fixes and leave PC be until PC 2.0 or delete PC right now and forget it ever existed. I always love reading the "remove 'x' content please" arguments. Last thing this game needs is less content - PC is the only thing that separates this game from a 100% match-maker shooter and, well, it just barely does that at the moment. Removing ISK generation would just kill any reason to go into PC what-so-ever, the entire point of getting into PC is to make ISK and removing that defeats the entire purpose of a "risk vs reward" style gameplay. What we need is a more methodical way to go about it and one solution I really liked was having it so that clone packs could only be used to attack a district bordering a high-sec system. Gives a more tactical reason to have space in a certain area as opposed to just anywhere and it kills district locking all together in systems that -dont- border high-sec. Only thing you need to do then is make it so that systems that can be attacked by those clone packs don't make any ISK from it; as previously stated. Gives players a reason and drive to push further into low-sec and more tactical space because otherwise they're subject to just constant attacks by just anyone and they don't make anything from it, only when their clones are at capacity in the district. PC is content for what percentage of the playerbase? Of that percentage of the playerbase, what percentage get to do something more than overpaid "privates"? Even beyond that, how much of that content is anything more than simply epeen waving and deciding who to farm with next or which newcomer to **** on first. The percentage of the playerbase that actually participates in PC is inconsequentially small in comparison to the percentage that doesn't. They are the only ones that will miss it while CCP rebuilds it from the ground up. I am not even sure that any work done so far on PC 2.0 should even be kept since most likely they are moving forward with the same broken premises. The content CCP should focus on giving us is full racial parity. If anything else, I'd say that PvE should be a higher priority than PC in any shape, form or fashion. I would be willing to wait for a summer "expansion" that introduces raidable PvE as well as reintroducing PC (as a non-broken, Active source of Income Generation if we didn't need to worry about the currently broken system poisoning the rest of the game. Personally, I think expanding on the idea I presented earlier in this thread would be the perfect start for a new PC. It would make PC something that would encourage conflict as well as introducing other elements that the community has been requesting for a long time, PvE, PvEvP, player market in addition to science & industry and who can forget the fact that it would entwine Dust and Eve further (offering services to capsuleers and mercs alike through the surface infrastructure) For all of the talk of BPOs being a detriment to the Dust economy, they are a drop in the bucket compared to the isk that is generated from nothing everyday under the current PC mechanics. I am fairly certain that anyone who can't see or admit that is simply trying to protect their cash cow no matter what the longterm damage to the game may be. Which is more important to you, being stupid rich in a game on life support; or giving up your golden goose before travelling down Dust's road to recovery? Honestly PC is where you get to see this game shine. I mean really shine. Weapons are balanced, teams are working together, they are highly stressful situations but they are also A LOT of fun. PC is what this game should be balanced around as it is 16 v 16 in full proto, fully organized and working towards one objective. I truly wish the entire community had the opportunity to see that this game has so much more to offer beyond pubs. PC should be the holy land for corps and the end game content for this game. PC in its current form is truly fun, CCP just needs to balance to the isk risk v reward system. I am happy that you feel that way, sadly, I'd wager you are in the minority. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1436	Posted - 2014.01.30 16:23:00 - [17] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: This isn't a welfare state, if you want that go find it somewhere other than New Eden. What makes you think you are entitled to free money that is printed from nothing? Guess what? You're not, no one is. So what your Alliance/Corporation owns a District. Oh, you say you are entitled to the free money just because you won the fight? It shouldn't work that way. Look at it this way, seizing the District is like seizing the ingredients to make cookies. Just because you have those ingredients doesn't mean you get to eat the cookies. You need to prep the dough, add the semi sweet morsels, mix them in evenly, mold the dough into little balls and then bake them into cookies; only then can you eat the cookies. Seizing the District should give you access to X amount of potential PvE income per day. If you don't kill the mobs, you don't get the income. Just because you "own" the District doesn't mean you can farm your mobs unmolested. No, you need to defend your District from any raiders that show up to kill your mobs and claim your income. If you can't defend your District adequately, they will rob you blind. If you expand beyond what you can reasonably defend/patrol, you'll end up footing the bill for others to profit. Oh, did I forget to mention that you don't just get access to "your District" for free, you need to pay CONCORD their property tax. The upside is that you can profit by opening your structures to the public and charging them for access. Do you have a Production facility? Well, you can turn a decent profit by allowing both eggers and mercs the opportunity to utilize your manufacturing slots. Each type of facility allows you a seperate service which you can offer to the public for a price as well as X amount of potential PvE income for you to defend/farm. There you have it, a working model for Active Income Generation rather than farming fights with blues or locking Districts or (worst of all) sitting there with your thumb up your ass while still getting paid. Too bad you wasted all your time typing about district locking when I was talking about the ISK a district produces in the first place. Wow, could you be any more dense? I was talking about District Isk Generation too. Locked or not, current PC system is broken and has been since implementation. It needs to be scrapped entirely and reworked from square one. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1471	Posted - 2014.02.01 20:58:00 - [18] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Such stark opposition, disagreement and a general consensus all saying "remove ISK generation, increase ISK payouts". I don't think anyone really sat down and thought that out, at all. How does it solve district locking if not promote it? If I am not making ISK from the selling of clones on a district filled to capacity, than it's pointless to have that district in the first place if not to coax other entities to attack it - which is essentially putting it up on the chopping block to lose it... Further more, if that's the case, why not just attack it with a dummy corp anyway? I'm making more (guaranteed) money from doing so, thereby I could just throw clones back and forth between two or more districts with two separate corporations - not like I'm making any money from them at maximum capacity anyway. It's Red vs Blue but with profit as the main selling point. And as far as the "minority" argument goes, I find it almost insulting. Let's go over a few of the "minority" aspects that were removed from the game because they didn't work as intended: Marauder HAVs. Black Ops HAVs. Enforcer HAVs. Remote Vehicle Armor Repairers/Shield Transporters Corp Battles. Those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head. Add Planetary Conquest to mix for the sake of "fixing it" and what we're left with is literally a game focusing on a terrible public match-maker which has received plenty of complaints and evidence that it is not working optimally, a faction warfare system which isn't self-sustaining and a three match new player academy. This game would become -more- a lobby shooter with little to no control over what kind of impact you have, leaving the only real "Eve/Dust Link" that would exist would be on sparse occasion in Faction Warfare. Beyond that, you're killing off any aspect of the game's persistence; albeit the thin veil of territorial control in FW, I guess, could be considered that. I'm against poorly thought out "band-aid" solutions that would do more harm than good and I'm starkly against removing more content from the game when it's likely to never return given the glacial pace of meaningful change that does occur in this game. Disagree how you may but at least do us the service of coming up with a viable solution. PC as it exists now is little more than a cancer on the game, that (despite you viewing this as an insult) is honestly only played by a minority of the playerbase. It should be excised in its current form and reworked in such fashion that it is not simply a passive isk faucet. Oh, what ever will people do then you ask? Actually need to utilize their territory so that it isn't just sitting there gaining ISK for them. I personally like the proposal I put forward here. I can understand if the PvE part of it would have to be put on hold and it might not be immediate that the Eve/Dust connection could be made either, however, not allowing passive ISK to generate while waiting for these changes would be nothing if not a great start on the road to recovery. Each District would provide player interaction and generate Isk through that player interaction. Different pieces of Surface Infrastructure would allow the holding corp to provide a service to Eve Corps (and Dust Corps once we had the same options given to the Eve Corps). 1) Cargo Hubs could rent Planetary Offices which would function the same as Station Offices and allow any PI production on the planet to be stowed for a modest fee (which would be deposited in the holding corporations Mercenary Wallet). 2) Production Facilities could offer Manufacturing slots to Eve Corps that functioned similarly to POS Manufacturing Arrays (though with the potential to be opened to any capsuleer) with the proceeds being deposited in the holding corporations Mercenary Wallet. In addition to this, they could perhaps offer some accelerated production times on PI processes occurring on the planet (add a popup window informing them of the cost and asking the capsuleer if they wish to utilize the accelerated process times, if they do, the fee set by the holding corp is immediately deposited in the holding corporations Mercenary Wallet). 3) Surface Research Labs could provide Research slots to Eve Corps in the same way that Production Facilities would provide Manufacturing slots. All three of these would increase the Dust/Eve connection in addition to giving the holding Dust corporation a method by which to generate Isk. I imagine that this would be able to be implemented more rapidly than PvE as well, which is the other side of that coin. Forcing the Dust Corporation to actually "work" for their Isk would be much preferable to just giving them a handout on a silver platter. PvE mob slaying is even really work, it is more just a hoop to jump through for your treat and would outright remove the possibility to passively farm Isk at all. Allowing Corporations to passively farm ISK in the interim would likely be the final nail in the coffin for Dust. It might not be immediately evident, though once we get a Player Market, it will become ridiculously so. The disparity between the haves and the have nots would grow to such a degree that there would be PC (whose gates would be barred from new entry by virtue of the massive gulf in finances), FW (which would only be farmed with any sustainability by those who've grown fat on PC and market transactions funded by the PIG of PC) and pubs which would become even more laughable as a protostompers playground. PC as it exists currently needs to be burnt to ash and left as a forgotten memory. I really do want Dust to survive and prosper, however, keeping PC as it exists currently because it is "content" isn't doing Dust any favors outside of the small percentage of players involved in the Molden Heath Circlejerk. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1481	Posted - 2014.02.02 14:10:00 - [19] - Quote @DrapedUp DrippedOut No, you are failing to see my point. Money is nothing more than an illusion, perception is power. I could be some broke ass cardboard box living hobo, but if I can make you think I've got the goods, you'll do as I say until it becomes readily apparent that I don't. By that time, it very well may be too late for your previous employer. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1488	Posted - 2014.02.02 20:12:00 - [20] - Quote Herman Hardon wrote: LOL u guys are pissed about this ? What about the ppl that bought the bundle packs that were labeled for 1 aur . They got a ton of proto gear and loads of boosters . I know a guy that has over a million proto suits and 20,000 active boosters. I haven't seen **** about how ccp will fix that . In fact anyone that post about it gets takin down . If it seems too good to be true, it is. I have no sympathy for those, who in their greedy idiocy spent huge amounts of AUR and are now crying because they didn't think things through. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1488	Posted - 2014.02.02 23:01:00 - [21] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Gelhad Thremyr wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Bethhy wrote: They are more worried and debating on what amount of man hours they are going to invest into this immediately. CCP Has been working on PC 2.0 Since Uprising 1.4(September) By the name 2.0 a lot of people have been speculating that it is to come with the DUST 2.0 Expansion what ever they deem to name it (Probably won't be Uprising) I Really do hope they take their time and make sure it's finely polished this time. The Under Delivery of the Planetary Conquest Mechanic in DUST 514 is largely what killed the player counts from Beta to Uprising launch. Most aspiring Corporations and gaming groups where very interested but it was one debacle after another. So right now they are debating whether to just hotfix PC and give it some simplistic fix and what should it be and who to take off another project to do it.... Or whether to do a partial implementation of PC upgrades... Or whether to just say screw it and wait... (depends on if they can hotfix it... or forced to do it in the 1.8 patch) Decisions Decisions... This is the type of logic that leads to CCP making mistake after mistake. You CAN NOT leave a broken mechanic in a game for an extended period of time. It alienates your player base leading to a lack of confidence in CCP and frustration in the user experience. Turning off a no show clone pack refunds is such a simple bandaid to implement that it's illogical they have not done it. Reducing the amount of ISK generated is another simple configuration change they have previously hot fixed. Not acknowledging these issues in a timely mater and resolving them is an enormous failing on CCPs part. The same can be said of their stance on OP weapons and vehicles. Letting us get frustrated day after day while we wait months for a full solution is ridiculous. There is a time and a place for a quick change and CCPs inability to recognize this is their greatest failing IMO. Let us all hope that one day they learn from their repeated failings on this type of issue. What some consider simple fix must always end up being checked by Sony for Quality Assurance. They have just started to enhance their work processes to accomodate MMO's, trust me I am certain they wish things would go quicker for fixes. There is only a certain amount of data that they can hot fix without coming to meddle with client data stored on the PS3 and that triggers an automatic QA on sony's part. There are other factors than simply CCP's willingness to go quicker, so maybe you should send Sony some letters so they let developpers do their things on their platform. But all in all sony is way slacker than Microsoft. First they hot fixed ISK generation and rewards for PC previously and stated they were going to change it further but never followed through. Hence it's rather simple to infer they can easily adjust these in a hot fix. Second, you have zero clue what your talking about and generic statements like this are inane. District locking and refunding clone packs has been an ongoing issue for months and months and months. To say they could not have resolved such a simple issue due to sony when they have done so many other things is quite simply stupid. The issue here is not work involved but prioritization and recognizing that the status quo of leaving it broken is unacceptable. Unless they wanted to just print ISK for their buddies. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1489	Posted - 2014.02.02 23:29:00 - [22] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Unless they wanted to just print ISK for their buddies. Lol, conspiracy theory time! :) I would delve further into the theory, though they would just have it deleted. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1489	Posted - 2014.02.02 23:41:00 - [23] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP. Thank you, though I must admit that the OP has the most likes in the thread (wouldn't doubt that many of them are alt likes though, gotta keep your passive cash cow alive after all despite overwhelming support throughout the rest of the thread for the removal) Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1489	Posted - 2014.02.03 01:25:00 - [24] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Severance Pay wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP. Thank you, though I must admit that the OP has the most likes in the thread (wouldn't doubt that many of them are alt likes though, gotta keep your passive cash cow alive after all despite overwhelming support throughout the rest of the thread for the removal) You do realize that the majority of locked districts in PC right now are actually to protest the ability to do so and profit right? The OP was to bring light to the fact that many corporations are fed up with the exploit and want it fixed. Are you even trying? Ah, are you aware of the difference between my post and the OP? OP simply wants the locking exploit fixed and to keep their passive ISK faucet (except when the Districts are locked). I on the other hand, want PC removed entirely until it can be brought back with zero passive ISK gain whatsoever. I am not against Districts providing a source of Active Isk Generation (PvE mob slaying for profit, selling services to capsuleers/mercs for profit etc). However Passive Isk Generation needs to go. Along with all of the passively generated wealth (asset or liquid) that it has created thus far. Anything less and it will be the death of Dust in the long term. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1491	Posted - 2014.02.03 01:37:00 - [25] - Quote Gelhad Thremyr wrote: So basically your saying, we should give all the fun part to eve and if people are stupid toinvest ressources dust wise whitout a character in eve..well screw you.. And this is supposed to save dust on the long run ? When an investment is made in ressource by a player isk or time he needs to assessthe risk vs gain. What you are proposing is not a high enough gain for players in dust only. Um, I don't quite understand your interpretation of what I have written. Where exactly did I say that "all the fun part" should go to Eve? I don't believe I said that at all. Where exactly did I specify how much would be gained by either of the activities I put forward as acceptable sources of Active Isk Generation? Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1493	Posted - 2014.02.03 02:23:00 - [26] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: So, basically, you want the game to fail then? PC represents the pinnacle of this game right now. Its competition among the best of the best. Remove it and this game becomes a simple lobby shooter and nothing more. Remove it and you lose a huge chunk of your player base. Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth. The problem isnt that people are generating ISK, its that it secures the district so that others cannot attack it at all. It allows the corp to attack others without reprisal. Again, you want to stop a corp from generating ISK? Attack the district and try to take it from them. The majority of corps in PC do not lock their districts and they can be attacked at any time. Right now you just sound like someone who is bitter and vindictive and wants nothing other than to punish those whom you felt wronged you. Those corps that are protesting this arent asking for reprisals against those that are doing it and they are impacted the most. If you want to change how PC works then propose something that is attractive to Dust mercs and not something that just benefits a minority. No, I want the game to prosper in the longterm. PC is the pinnacle of the game how? Does everyone play it? Of those that do play it, no one complains of soulcrushing lag or the exploits that people use? It is competition among "the best of the best"? Sounds like a 1% circlejerk if you ask me. Even with PC, this game is a simple lobby shooter. Remove it and we lose a small fraction of the playerbase that we'd probably be better off without anyway. You say "Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth", that is exactly my point. So we are to just try to take it from them when they're able to sit with their thumb up their asses and make Isk while we need to grind the isk by facing them in pubs where they faceroll everyone with proto gear that they can throw away for months while we need to scrimp every single penny we can just to have a chance at attacking them? Beyond that, once we get a player market, it will be dominated by those same thumbsitters who will jack prices to a point where no one can afford to buy anything beyond STD if that. How is what I have already proposed multiple times in this thread not attractive to Dust mercs on the whole rather than to the small minority that is involved in PC? You say I want the game to die, I say you want the game to die. The reason you say I want it to die is because I want a broken mechanic that benefits a small minority removed while it is reworked and the damage it has done is reversed. I say you want the game to die because you want the status quo to go on with a minor tweak so that you can **** the future of this game right in the ass. I think that Dust would have a better chance at longterm survival by ignoring the minority who obviously feel they are the only ones who should be playing than it would by listening to the same minority and destroying any real chance of longterm growth. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1494	Posted - 2014.02.03 02:32:00 - [27] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Canari Elphus wrote: So, basically, you want the game to fail then? PC represents the pinnacle of this game right now. Its competition among the best of the best. Remove it and this game becomes a simple lobby shooter and nothing more. Remove it and you lose a huge chunk of your player base. Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth. The problem isnt that people are generating ISK, its that it secures the district so that others cannot attack it at all. It allows the corp to attack others without reprisal. Again, you want to stop a corp from generating ISK? Attack the district and try to take it from them. The majority of corps in PC do not lock their districts and they can be attacked at any time. Right now you just sound like someone who is bitter and vindictive and wants nothing other than to punish those whom you felt wronged you. Those corps that are protesting this arent asking for reprisals against those that are doing it and they are impacted the most. If you want to change how PC works then propose something that is attractive to Dust mercs and not something that just benefits a minority. No, I want the game to prosper in the longterm. PC is the pinnacle of the game how? Does everyone play it? Of those that do play it, no one complains of soulcrushing lag or the exploits that people use? It is competition among "the best of the best"? Sounds like a 1% circlejerk if you ask me. Even with PC, this game is a simple lobby shooter. Remove it and we lose a small fraction of the playerbase that we'd probably be better off without anyway. You say "Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth", that is exactly my point. So we are to just try to take it from them when they're able to sit with their thumb up their asses and make Isk while we need to grind the isk by facing them in pubs where they faceroll everyone with proto gear that they can throw away for months while we need to scrimp every single penny we can just to have a chance at attacking them? Beyond that, once we get a player market, it will be dominated by those same thumbsitters who will jack prices to a point where no one can afford to buy anything beyond STD if that. How is what I have already proposed multiple times in this thread not attractive to Dust mercs on the whole rather than to the small minority that is involved in PC? You say I want the game to die, I say you want the game to die. The reason you say I want it to die is because I want a broken mechanic that benefits a small minority removed while it is reworked and the damage it has done is reversed. I say you want the game to die because you want the status quo to go on with a minor tweak so that you can **** the future of this game right in the ass. I think that Dust would have a better chance at longterm survival by ignoring the minority who obviously feel they are the only ones who should be playing than it would by listening to the same minority and destroying any real chance of longterm growth. The worthless majority aspire to be what they cannot be. Kill the dream, and you kill the soul. Kill the soul, and the body soon follows. lol Full of yourself much? I am quoting this just so everyone can see exactly what your opinion of everyone who isn't one of the "Circlejerk Elite". Besides, I'd say that you're looking to kill the dream for anyone who isn't one of you. The dream of the majority is larger than the dream of the minority. Therefore it has more gravity and is less likely to be ignored. Unless of course, CCP really think that they can make more AUR revenues without the "worthless majority" as you have called the majority of the playerbase with your comment. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1497	Posted - 2014.02.03 03:24:00 - [28] - Quote @Canari Elphus I only said remove PC for the time being until it can be brought back without the Passive Isk Generation. I never once said that it should never come back, only that the Passive Isk Generation should never come back. Yeah, PC wars are very expensive and can cost billions per week if it is full out? So how can anyone who isn't already involved in PC afford to attack full out against those already established? Passive Isk generation is only attractive because you can sit there and do nothing and still make Isk. Active Isk generation can be just as attractive if you're willing to accept that you need to take a risk to get a reward. This is after all, New Eden and there should be no free cookies. Passive Isk generation is just that, free cookies. Hell, the Passive Isk Generation in Eve isn't even as free as it is in Dust since you need to get your moon goo to market to actually make a profit, in Dust it is just fill up the clone limit and rake in Isk. You can tell me what I want when you see the world through my eyes, until then, I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. I want more than pubs and tbh, I want to be involved in PC, just not this broken joke that it currently is. This is why I boycott PC and have boycotted PC since it was released as a game feature. I looked forward to PC until I saw how broken it was and that it was just going to be a passive faucet. I wanted it to be so much more than that, though it isn't. It is a joke, nothing more than another lobby to sit in, in which you can watch your balance sheet get fatter. I wonder how you would fair if you didn't have the Passive Income from PC, would you stick around so you could grind pubs for Isk so you can keep your head above water? I doubt it. If you mean what you say when you say "I want to find ways to get more people involved into the risk/reward scenario of what this game will turn into eventually" you would support the removal of the broken system until a not broken system could be implemented. I wonder how many people would be playing Dust right now if it hadn't been for them getting facerolled by a PC corp protostomping squad their first match out of Academy, do you care? I am betting no. All of the PC corps claim to want new blood in the mix and yet they don't change their behaviors, they just continue raking in passive isk and pissing it away as proto gear in pubs. Personally, I think it is funny that you find the bed you've made to be uncomfortable. Did you even read the posts I put up about ways to actively generate isk? I am betting not, you saw "no passive isk" and overlooked the rest of the post. If you think this is me foaming at the mouth, you haven't seen **** yet. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1497	Posted - 2014.02.03 08:09:00 - [29] - Quote Where did I say that they would only generate slots in Eve? I didn't, I said that they would generate slots available in Eve until we were given the same capabilities that can be found in Eve, indicating that they would eventually be open to mercs as well once we had the opportunity. Where do you get "no evolution" in my suggestions? You are imagining that as you want to give my ideas no credence as evidenced by your narrow view of what I see my suggestions encompassing. I have a question for you, have you yourself played Eve? Have you experienced 0.0? Have you seen the complaints on the EveO forums regarding the abysmal conditions for Industry in 0.0? As it is now, most items in 0.0 need to be hauled in, the materials for T2 Production are most predominantly found in 0.0 and yet where is most T2 production done? In Empire, this makes no sense. The materials are there, the will is there, the only things missing are the slots and appropriate infrastructure. My proposal for PC could provide just such Infrastructure, infrastructure that couldn't be hotdropped and reinforced (therefore interrupting all processes on that tower). It would provide a safer and more stable platform for the pursuit of industry which would bring prosperity to both Capsuleer and Merc as well as allowing more activity to flourish in 0.0 (no more, ohnoes, I need to get so and so hauled in or I can't do that cause I don't have the ships). There is plenty of room for evolution in my proposals, you just don't want to see it because you are too attached to the teat of Passive Income. I am quite frankly thoroughly confused by how you cannot see protostomping as detrimental to the longterm health of the game as well as how it is having a negative impact on not only player numbers, but also on media perception from critics. Protostomping doesn't just pertain to me, it pertains to all of us, despite how much you might get a raging hardon for how "l33t" your gungame skills are because you can faceroll people with your protogear, it is not helping. You might think it is, because it makes you feel good about yourself, but all those guys getting facerolled, don't feel good about Dust after you get your jollies on stomping them. You mistakenly infer that I wish to inject banality "so players don't get picked on". Quite the contrary, I want players to be able to be picked on, just in an environment where they can escape it by way of shrewd decision making and skill at evasion. Smacking fish in a barrel isn't difficult at all, this is all that your doing by picking on people in the lobby. Try smacking fish in the ocean, where they can evade you, flee off along another current and go about their business there all the while with you pursuing them. Another benefit of this would be that they can smack you back if you're not paying attention. Again, I must ask you if you have ever played Eve? If you had, you'd know all about the free noobships you get when you dock in your pod. These are the equivalent of Dust starter fits, they exist and they are analogous to one another. I will grant that the imbalance between new players and vets is extreme in Eve, however, it works there. In Eve, you aren't forced to face off against a team of 16 guys with 15 guys at your side. In Eve, you can roam freely and do as you please for the most part, this is not so in Dust. In Eve, if you are getting facerolled by vets when you go into a particular system, you can choose to not go into that system while still actively participating in the game. Yes, I will agree with you that PC should have the greatest rewards available in the game, however the PC that CCP "just threw" at us should've been just thrown in the bin. It is/was half-ass, poorly thought out and laughable in the extreme. PC as it exists currently will never be for those outside of the snobby 1%, that is just the way that it is. There will never be an opening for anyone who doesn't kowtow to them for a place as renters or as sycophants clamoring for crumbs. The Passive faucet has made sure of that and has absolutely no place in New Eden as it amounts to free cookies. The suggestions you put forward for "adding layers of complexity" simply smack of larger barriers, increasing costs for escalation? Who will be able to afford these aside from those who've been bathing in the faucet the longest? In addition to their financial advantage, you want to make it so that vets have little more to do than faceroll any newcomers? Let me guess, nullsec faucets would be even greater in flow than lowsec faucets right? So you're actually proposing that passive income generation be ramped up? Are you mad? I don't want everyone to have the same stuff, I do want everyone to have the same opportunities. It sounds to me like you simply want to have more opportunities for your self and those who've been taking advantage of the raking of passive Isk the longest. This isn't the right path to take. Everyone should have the same opportunities, the same chances to work at actively making that Isk rather than having it poured out for them as if they were entitled to a handout. Tech wasn't worth very much before Goons went and seized all of the Tech moons and created a monopoly (or as close to one as they could). They took them, defended them and manipulated the market to make their wealth. CCP didn't just say "hey, you guys with the tech moons over there, we're just going to print isk for you day and night". They seized an opportunity to take a mediocre moon goo and turn it into the highest priced moon goo there was until CCP changed up Alchemy and made it so that people could bypass not having a Tech moon to create their own "tech wealth". Utilizing resources to make wealth is a good thing, so long as you are actively working towards creating that wealth and not just having it handed to you on a silver platter. PIG is Anti-New Eden and needs to go. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1504	Posted - 2014.02.03 13:01:00 - [30] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: "I've boycotted PC since it came out" Aka- I'm not good enough to play it. Why are people who haven't played a PC in the last 5 months coming in here calling for PC to be removed? You claim to have the skill, why no ringing? You claim to have an astute grasp of the state of PC, how? You can certainly have an opinion about passive ISK farming, but don't come in here having been PC dormant for months and expect any active players to take you seriously. Lets be real, this worthless majority mentioned above does exist. Some people flat out lack the skill and discipline to play PC. If this sounds like you, be upset the ISK farm affects you, but don't say get rid of PC. I am preserving your arrogance for posterity, if it weren't for that I wouldn't even acknowledge your post. Look well at the presumptuous arrogance displayed by this one. Remember him for he would have himself installed as your better if he could. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1505	Posted - 2014.02.03 17:30:00 - [31] - Quote @Canari Elphus Ok, so I had to attend to some stuff IRL before I could devote enough attention to respond respectfully to you as it seems to me you are trying to do for me. Only a portion of my point is directed at helping "non-combatant roles" as you put it, this is also the portion that is to represent the "passive" income that I believe would be much more acceptable than the current mechanic of fill clone quota-> rake in Isk. Rather than relying on the potential for standings to allow you to farm in peace, it would require interaction from other players, your "passive" Isk wouldn't be appearing from nowhere, it would be a direct result of player involvement in your service. I also feel that you are only viewing a small slice of the reason why "Dust players get into PC". You are viewing it from your own point of view and projecting that need for a hypercompetitive environment on all players that want to get involved in PC. I, for example, couldn't care less about a hypercompetitive environment, my desire for getting involved in PC is to claim ownership of my valley, land in New Eden, a place that I can call my own. Think of it as a provi-bloc type freeport where all would be welcome so long as they followed a few simple rules. In addition to this, who is to say that there would never be the potential for more combat oriented activities that could be engaged in? The services would need to begin somewhere, that doesn't mean that the initial services that could be offered would forever be the only services that could be offered. You make too many assumptions. I may make too many assumptions too I guess, since seeing that you are in AE, I assumed that you participated in the same practices I've seen many of your corp mates participate in. If my view of you being guilty by association is wrong, I apologize, I don't remember ever facing you, so I don't know if my assumption is correct or not. Why do you feel the need to "increase competition at higher and higher levels"? In Eve, Isk in 0.0 is used for empire building and maintenance, this is only tangentially related to competition. It relates in that people will wish to expand their empire and conversely, people will want to topple your empire. If you've got an empire of ***, who will want to compete with you for it? If you want PC to evolve into that competition, you need to give us empires worth competing over. Passive Isk faucets do not an empire make. I am in agreement with you concerning PC1 and PC2, though I disagree that fully passive Isk that is conjured from nothing is the way to go. The Isk "created" needs to come from somewhere other than the ether. Otherwise, this will exacerbate the disparity that has already been created by PC pumping out free Isk. I believe that your idea involving the evolution "opening up new opportunities for newer players/corps to evolve as well" is misled. There will at some point become a pinnacle that cannot be surpassed and PC shouldn't be little more than an overly complex game of "King of the Hill". There will forever be limits to how many new opportunities can be opened, this cannot be changed and we will need to figure out how to work within those constraints. This is where Dust can take a queue from Eve, in that, there are large places filled with opportunities to create wealth and explore the universe. Are some of these places more profitable than others? Of course, though it still remains that there is the opportunity there, the freedom to do as you like without the need for participating in 0.0. Dusts lobby doesn't allow concessions for this, the only sandbox in Dust (if you can even really call it that) is in PC. In Dust, when you play pubs, you have no choice in where you go or who you fight without backing out of potentially innumerable matches. How is that playing the game? IDK about you, but I don't imagine that it would be fun to log in only to spend 3 hours loading into and backing out of matches trying to go precisely where you wanted to go, would you find that to be fun? In FW can you actively choose where you want to attack and when? Can you coordinate with capsuleers to plex a system in tandem? The answer to those questions is no, you can't. Once again you have no choice in where you go or who you fight (though you can choose who you fight for). Where is the sandbox in pubs? Where is the sandbox in FW? Am I to believe that you would have all players desire to get involved in the hypercompetitive environment of PC or GTFO? I believe that you would be shooting yourself in the foot with that train of thought and would seriously limit the numbers of the playerbase as well as CCP's AUR revenues (which must* be taken into consideration). I can agree with your assertions regarding older and new players. This still doesn't mean that Isk generation should be in large majority passive. While yes, evolution of the model must come eventually, the passive isk generation is poisonous to the game as it is now. If the game is poisoned now, how do you expect that it will survive long enough to evolve? Yes, PC must evolve, though the PC we have at current must become much like the evolutionary dead ends from our own history. If it doesn't the game will forever be poisoned and ultimately unappealing to a wider playerbase. TBPF, if the choice rested solely on my shoulders, yes, the funds would be removed in their entirety, asset wealth as well as liquid wealth. Would this likely alienate a devoted (albeit small) subset of the playerbase? Yes, more than likely, would the game survive their loss? Yes, I do believe it would and it may even be stronger for the loss. Those players would be eventually be replaced and the players that took their place wouldn't have silly notions such as "Isk poofing into existence from the ether" was a good idea. After all, you get rid of one and there will be another just waiting to take their place. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1509	Posted - 2014.02.04 03:05:00 - [32] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: Alaika Arbosa The reasoning for players to enter Dust vs EVE is two separate things. EVE is more of an RPG than Dust is right now. As CCP has stated, Dust mercs are about the acquisition of land for the time being. PC was created as sort of a free form combat structure for competitive gameplay. Just look at those who play it to understand what its being used for. PC does not and should not be the answer to all aspirations for Dust players. If you want to move towards industry/trade then there should be something for that in Dust. However, the game should not sacrifice in one area to appease others. That is why I advocate for diversity rather than reshifting the base of this game. Want to get rid of passive isk generation? Then propose something that generates better gear that can only be used in PC battles etc. Allow for something that allows corps to build the sandcastles that we were promised in fanfest. Acquisition of land doesn't mean "acquisition of passive faucets". If all you want is a structure for free form competitive gameplay, why not lobby to have Districts open for player organized tournaments which provide no ISK faucet and require no ISK investment? I never said that Dust should sacrifice in one area to appease others, I simply said that Passive ISK Generation should be put to a full stop and all wealth generated by it thus far should be reclaimed by CCP. I too want diversity despite what you may think. Now, I know what you're going to say, "You clearly said you'd willingly alienate a subset of the playerbase". Well, that isn't a lie, though alienation is a far cry from sacrifice. If those who were alienated chose to leave, that would be their choice; however if they'd leave simply because a horribly broken mechanic was being set right, well then, good riddance. Couldn't the installations provide the gear of which you speak? I have put forward suggestions that circumvent Passive Income Generation, you seem to outright dismiss that though. There are many things that could be provided aside from free Isk from the Districts. Hell, I wouldn't even have a problem with the current "reach clone quota-> rake in Isk" design if it were tweaked to be "reach clone quota-> transport excess clones to market-> rake in Isk". It is the totally risk free and welfare state handout nature of the transaction currently that I have a problem with. Let's look at it a little closer, first all Districts generate a set number of clone everyday, this occurs no matter what the holding corporation does, hell, they can even not log in for a month and if their district remains in their hands, it will generate clones every. *******. day. Once the clone quota has been met, excess clones are sold off to NPC buy order for guaranteed profit. Let's look at what is wrong with this, clones come from ether, clones return to ether and are replaced by Isk. It is little more than a handout, it is the safest method by which to generate Isk in all of New Eden. Even Station Trading has more risk from the oft-maligned Margin Trading scam (which btw, I think is perfectly fine, if people get punished for being greedy morons who don't think things through then they deserve to get stuck with worthless goods), yet you defend it as being more than acceptable. The only people I have seen defend it though are from corporations who've been gaming the system and farming ISK from it for months now. Doesn't really surprise me though, gotta hang on for dear life to that passive cash cow. Sandcastles will be built from infrastructure, not passive faucets. Passive faucets will not facilitate sandcastles being built, it will only facilitate smacking fish in a barrel. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta

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